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| This is what I call, the Toeiverse, (Movie 8 Broly is haxed) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 17 2012, 09:25 PM (2,427 Views) | |
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Sep 17 2012, 09:25 PM Post #1 |
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Alright. SSj2 Gohan arrived first in the ROSAT. Goku stated RSSj Broly has incredible-ass Ki. ""Goku, it's possible that his power may even be greater than that of you guys." "Wow! He's that strong!" Goku got excited, he tries to sense Broly's ki. He arrived. "He ain't here, but for him to leave this incredible Ki behind..." RSSj Broly > SSj2 Kid Gohan. LSSj Broly (M8) >>> SSj2 Kid Gohan > SPC. What does this make LSSj Broly (M10)? Very high SSj3 tier. so, what now? ![]() Or, go to the mangaverse side, where Broly tanked an amplfiied Kamehameha, which means LSSj Broly, M8, >> FP PC. Which side do you chose? |
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| + Pyrus | Sep 17 2012, 09:30 PM Post #2 |
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I choose to just ignore that scene in the RoSaT. Goku had no idea that was even a transformation. He just thought it was Gohan's inner power coming out. Toei wouldn't have known about the transformation or Gohan's specific level of power at that point either. So that scene means little to me. |
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Sep 17 2012, 09:33 PM Post #3 |
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I choose the verse where this guy doesn't exist because he's talked about too much. I don't think anyone truly realizes how bad Toei is until theY sit down and analyze this garbage. You could write an entire college thesis about Broly. Edited by GridZero, Sep 17 2012, 09:58 PM.
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Sep 17 2012, 09:36 PM Post #4 |
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i would like to know WHEN FPPC was almost killed by a KHH. find it for me. RSSj broly doesnt exist, toriyama drew him in SSj with purple hair. But mainly, where and when did goku fight FPPC, and what KHH did he almost die from AS FPPC? he was suppressed fighting goku. By a good margin. His final power up should put him about even with broly LSSJ. |
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| EMIYA | Sep 17 2012, 09:46 PM Post #5 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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The scene was non-canon anyways as far as directly showing Gohan's potential of an SSj2. What we do know however is that he realized Gohan was holding a great amount of potential energy inside of him that, if could be brought out through rage (Which he probably figured out through things like Raditz and other concepts) then they'd have the best chance of beating Cell. He got what he wanted but int he end, I don't think even Goku realized just how much energy Gohan had been storing up inside of him and Gohan was holding an unparalleled amount of hidden energy even beyond his scope. It's sort of shown that while people can sense energy, there are cases where they can't get an exact measurement from it. When Cell first went into full power, Goku and everyone else was freaking out and thought he might actually prove a challenge to Gohan.A major a** whooping in Gohan's favor happened instead. Basically Gohan was already ridiculously powerful. When Cell powered up, he too became ridiculously powerful to the point where the others couldn't interpret the still massive difference between the two. I do have a question though since I know you should be able to help me answer it. Before I kept using the fully released volume date from Shueisha in regards to when points in the manga happened in the movie until I was corrected on how the specific chapter themsevles appeared in Shounen Jump before hand. During movie 8's release, what was the latest chapter released in Shounen Jump? Edited by EMIYA, Sep 17 2012, 09:49 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Sep 17 2012, 09:52 PM Post #6 |
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I have to stop you here. I won't argue that RSSjin isn't truly a separate form from Broly's standard SSjin state (kind of like Grades 2 and 3 to SSjin), but it is separate in the fact that Broly can only get so powerful in RSSjin before he reaches the cap from Paragus's mind control. Broly's hair turning purple could be due to the mind control messing with his chi, causing a dysfunction or some other matter, since he can't access his full power; so he's basically at a waypoint between Base and SSjin, and "RSSjin" is meant to showcase that. tl;dr: It's not another form like SSjin 3 is to SSjin 2, but it's distinguishable enough that it's given its own moniker.
Mhm, so the scene has little relevance to where Broly stands in Movie 8. |
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| + Pyrus | Sep 17 2012, 10:01 PM Post #7 |
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DBZ Movie 8: Burn Up!! A Red-Hot, Raging, Super-Fierce Fight (Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan) Release Date: March 6, 1993 Manga Release (4 months back): "Full Member Gathering!!" (Nov 2, 1992) Manga Release (6 months back): "Super Trunks Surpasses His Father!" (Aug 31, 1992) Latest Manga Chapter Release: "The Ultimate Kamehameha" (Mar 1, 1993) Between Episodes: #176 ("Wait Just a Minute!! The Great Satan Army Arrives") - #177 ("Goku’s Bout!! The Super-Tense Cell Games") This might help you as to why I use the 4-6 months back system: http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8373899/1/ Edited by Pyrus, Sep 17 2012, 10:02 PM.
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| EMIYA | Sep 17 2012, 10:11 PM Post #8 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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Ah, thank you very much and I'm glad you gave the link because I knew that there was difference between the release date of a movie and when the actual production of it started. In movie 10, we know Gohan said that he had gotten stronger. That might be interpreted in terms of having SSj2 over SSj, but for here, I'm going to assume he means it in an overall sense. What exactly was Gohan's line in the movie? I really need to get an exact dialogue of the Japanese version of what he says here. |
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Sep 17 2012, 10:12 PM Post #9 |
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"He's as bad a monster as ever! And here i'm supposed to have powered up considerably since back then!" |
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| EMIYA | Sep 17 2012, 10:52 PM Post #10 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I see, thanks. "He's as bad as a monster as ever!" I think we can obviously interpret that as just meaning, Broly's a beast and it's just as hard fighting him now than it was before. Obviously it wouldn't make sense if Gohan was referring to it just as direct power because we know Broly did in fact get stronger from what the Diazenshuu tells us. "And here I'm supposed to have powered up considerably since back then!" He says something similar in the dub for the broly being as much a monster, but I don't think he says the second line. Regardless of that though, he does say it while fighting in base form I believe. In such a case, I would feel obligated in saying when Gohan says he powered up considerably, he's considered it overall now. There are two points of views I want to make, regarding that line and how it might be subjective to different views. By the time the movie was released, Gohan was already stated to have had a huge amount of untapped power and surpassed his father. This obviously could just be a thing on Toei who didn't want to make Gohan match his power in the Cell games, or if they did, they greatly empowered Goku up at the same point. I won't accept or deny such a thing since I don't know how Toei was handling the movie in regards to the manga chapters going on. I mean we know sometimes they just do whatever they want, such as having Dende around in movie 6 when Gohan hasn't even so much as grown up, much less entered the ROSAT. But for the former, if we conclude that Gohan was at his Cell games counter part then if we take Movie 10 Gohan's word, he would truly have gotten stronger. But isn't it possible in saying that since the movie production started earlier (Which is why I wanted to know when the latest chapter was since I knew productions of these movies could take between 4-6 months) that Toei when working on the movie would have no idea that Gohan was actually stronger than Goku? In short, what we know about movie 8 in regards to the production and Gohan was that it would have: 1.) Gohan is wearing the uniform he usually wears when he was a younger child, such as those seen in Movie 6. The purple gi with the white over top around his neck. Now this might just be something Toei wanted to do, but if it isn't, this would mean that instead of giving Gohan his most recent clothes (the regular gi he wore in the Cell games) they instead gave him the second most recent (Besides Saiyan Suit) that Gohan was wearing because of the possibility that during this part of production, they may not have known what Gohan's look would have been nor at the same time, nor he was holding an great amount of power over his father. 2.) If you were to say that MSSJ Movie 8 Gohan=MSSJ Cell Games Gohan. Would than then have to mean that MSSJ Movie 8 Goku>MSSJ Cell Games Goku. What I'm bringing up basically is, if take into consideration that the production of movie 8 would have begun before Gohan was stated to have surpassed his father, isn't it very well possible that Movie 8 Gohan<Cell Games Gohan (And by no means by a significant amount) but could still have improved greatly in movie 10 while still being weaker than if we put his Cell games level and increased it for movie 10. For either one, I would still put him heavily above SSj2 Buu Arc Gohan and if considering the difference between these two aspects of Movie 8 Gohan and Cell Games Gohan, I wouldn't put them at a significant difference either. I've got to match up canon as much as I can with these movies. Unless you want to say this is a different alternate timeline where Goku was stronger than Gohan. Would you have to say that Movie 8 Gohan is still weaker than his Cell games counterpart? |
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| + Pyrus | Sep 17 2012, 11:01 PM Post #11 |
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You can circumvent the whole Gohan/Goku issue by just having Gohan stronger than Goku regardless of Toei's intentions. In the beginning when Kaio is talking to Goku about Broly, he tells him that Broly might be stronger than "you guys," instead of just Goku. So if Goku really was the strongest, it seems odd that Kaio would make a general statement like that instead of a specific one about Goku. Feats are also inconsistent in the movie, so I really don't care much about the arguments concerning those, because if you went by feats you'd end up with Vegeta doing worse than Gohan when that's the opposite of what people arguing this are trying to say. Now, I'm not saying go ahead and ignore whatever Toei's intentions were in other movies (like Gohan's form debate in Movie 10), but a situation like this can easily be handled with some out of the box thinking. |
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| EMIYA | Sep 17 2012, 11:12 PM Post #12 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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I can see where you're getting at, but it again leads to specific questions as I've said. We know that in Canon MSSJ Gohan>MSSJ Goku. We know in movie 8 MSSJ Goku>MSSJ Gohan. This is a heavy difference between the two and with much contradiction as far as canon goes if we consider that MSSJ Movie 8 Gohan=MSSJ Cell Games Gohan. Now as with mention of production, it's very well possible that Toei didn't know how strong Gohan was, could've easily have thought he was weaker than Trunks and Vegeta and by the time the chapter for Gohan detailing how strong he is was released, they had may have already have finished production and instead of going back and correcting such things as Gohan doing worse than Vegeta, they kept it. It's not something I would ever encourage as being correct as again, I have nothing but speculation on my part, but it is something I want to bring up. |
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Sep 17 2012, 11:29 PM Post #13 |
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i see pyro, i see. if movie 10 is any indication then you could be right about the purple hair retcon, but in the original sketches shown to me by grid. toriyama had a different idea. i always thought it weird he looked like trunks. |
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| TrunksinSwimmingTrunks | Sep 18 2012, 05:34 AM Post #14 |
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Formerly known as daman
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Read haxed from afar as naked. Yeh anyway....better attempt to make an on topic post.... I like to think Gohan just didn't unleash his power properly. He didn't think he had that much power so kinda gave up. With Cell his father convinced him that he was capable of more than what he achieved in training. |
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kamizake pyro is a girl? olsiw Make the old spam section viewable plz | |
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Sep 18 2012, 05:18 PM Post #15 |
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This point is baseless. LOL. Toei just made the flashback in the Cell Games and SSJ2 Gohan barely existed in the Manga by the time Toei made M8. |
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